Oleh/By : DATO SERI DR. MAHATHIR BIN MOHAMAD
Tempat/Venue : PEJABAT PERDANA MENTERI
Tarikh/Date : 13-11-2001
Tajuk/Title : INTERVIEW WITH L'EXPANSION
MAGAZINE OF FRANCE, ISSUE
OF 22 NOV TO 6 DEC, 2001
Versi : ENGLISH
Penyampai : PM
"ISLAM SEES ITSELF AS OPPRESSED"
Malaysia is the only country with a Muslim
majority which has managed to steer itself away from
destitution, and has experienced economic success
(apart for royalties from petroleum resources).
And what a success ! After two decades of dazzling
growth, its 24 million people have multiplied by 10
their per capita income which now equals half of ours.
This miracle is attributed, even by its most
intransigent detractors, to Mahathir Mohamad who has
led the country for more than 20 years. It is him who
has planned the development, applying protectionism but
all the while striving to make Malaysia an export
champion, building mosques and airports with the same
vigour, favouring the Bumiputeras while not forgetting
the Chinese and the Indians who are at the heart of the
business community.
A friend of Jacques Chirac, this 75-year old
Muslim has also stood out thanks to his provocative
stands worthy of a de Gaulle or a Lee Kuan Yew, the
prime minister of Singapore from 1959 to 1990 :
denouncing the international financial system,
criticising American domination, affirming that the
Asian values are superior than the individualistic and
materialistic West. With, in addition, "skiddings"
bordering on antisemitism.
Mahathir faces a democracy with complex
connections. In Malaysia, the elections are free but
the freedom of the public is restrained/limited. Islam
is the official religion but the freedom of religion is
total.
Confronted with a rising Islamist opposition,
which obliges him to give some guarantees to his
electorate but careful not to cut the bridges with the
West which is economically and geopolitically vital for
this modest country surrounded by giants with sharp
teeth, Mahathir treads along a narrow ridge between two
competing temptations of the Muslim world : one of
confessional/religious confinement and the other of
cultural alienation.
Q: You officially condemned the attacks of Sept 11 but,
a short while later,you condemned with equal severity
the American attacks in Afghanistan. Are they, in your
opinion, the same ?
Dr M : No, it's not actually comparable. But it's a
fact that, just like the terrorist attacks had cost the
lives of innocent people, in the same manner, the
American attacks on Afghanistan are going to exact the
lives of other innocent people. What's worse is that
these attacks are not going to contribute towards the
fight against terrorism. It's the opposite ! In fact,
nobody knows where are the real/genuine terrorists.
Therefore, it is not by attacking Afghanistan that we
would be contributing towards eliminating terrorists
who are hiding in Europe, in Arab countries or even in
the United States. On the other hand, numerous Muslim
countries are going to have the feeling that it is less
a matter of chasing the terrorists than a revenge. It's
for this reason that we do not support the attack
against Afghanistan.
Q: In your opinion, what is the objective of Bin Laden
? Can we understand such a criminal act ?
Dr M : First of all, I don't take it as a fact/as
settled that these terrorists were the messengers of
Bin Laden. I don't dispute that he is the head of a
group of terrorists. Some of them had even trained
Malaysians hoping to see that they would go back to our
country and topple my government. So I don't have any
particular affection for Bin Laden. But there's nothing
to guarantee that if we attack Bin Laden, it will bring
an end to terrorist acts. Most importantly, we'll have
to try to understand why intelligent, well-rounded and
relatively well-off people who have families, can
decide to slam a plane into a tower ! If we content
ourselves with saying that they must be crazy people,
we would not be able to treat/resolve the problem. As
you know, I am a doctor by profession. A doctor starts
by searching for the source of the illness and would
not be happy to treat the pain with some aspirins. The
big question is this : what was it that could have
motivated these people ?
Q: And what is your answer ?
Dr M: I feel that it is linked to the situation in West
Asia. The feeling of discontent regarding this matter
is widespread/generally felt in the Muslim world. With
one billion Muslims, surely there would be a handful of
extremists who are willing to kill themselves with the
hope that this will help to fight terrorism that they
themselves have to endure. For in the eyes of Muslims,
the attacks by Jews also constitute an act of terror,
state terrorism.
Q: But the situation in West Asia, which is not
something new, can it all by itself fuel that much
resentment among Muslims ?
Dr M: Muslims have the impression that the entire world
is oppressing them. In Bosnia, some 200,000 Muslims had
to be massacred by the Serbs before the world began to
react. In Kosovo, the Muslims once again were attacked
by the Serbs. In Chechnya, a lot more died simply
because they wanted to free themselves from the
grip/iron rule of the Russians. I could add Kashmir,
Sudan and of course, Iraq where 500,000 children died
due to the lack of food and medicine caused by the
sanctions. Muslims think that other people accuse them
easily of terrorism whereas other terrorists are not
distinguished by their ethnic or religious
belonging/adherence. When talking about Palestine,
nobody in the West speaks of "Jewish terrorism" like
people do when it comes to "Muslim terrorism" ! And
when Timothy McVeigh blew up a building in Oklahoma,
the first American reaction was to say that it was
"Muslim terrorism" ! Moreover, McVeigh surely had
accomplices. How is it that they could not be found,
that people did not even try to do it just like they
are trying to destroy Muslim terrorists ?
Q: Isn't Malaysia exposed to Muslim terrorism too? Some
people have even considered your country as one of its
centres (with) one of the pilots of the Sept 11 attacks
having been seen in contact with some extremist groups
in your country ?
Dr M: We have seen the emergence of a group comprising
Muslims who want to turn Malaysia into what they call
an Islamic state. As they could not impose themselves
through the ballot boxes, they tried to topple my
government. They went to Pakistan, then Afghanistan
where they were trained by Osama Bin Laden and the
Taliban. We had identified, detained and put them in
prison. We had even prevented an attack against
American sailors in one of our ports. You see, we know
how to do it...But of course, if a foreign terrorist
whom we do not know come to our country as a "tourist",
we are not sure/certain of being able to catch him. I
would like to remind you that in the United States, the
terrorists who were responsible for the Sept 11 attacks
were not even suspects in the eyes of the local
authorities! But to accuse us of hiding criminals
solely based on the grounds that some terrorists had
been in Malaysia, this does not make any sense. Nobody
is accusing the Swiss government of colluding with the
terrorists even though some of them who were involved
on the Sept 11 attacks had also stayed in Switzerland.
Q: Apart from Malaysia, no other country with a Muslim
majority had managed to pull out from the state of
under-development. Is it a stroke of good luck ?
Dr M: In every Muslim community, you will find a
minority of the people who would like to create an
Islamic state and will try to stop the government from
developing the country economically. Instead of
encouraging Muslims to study, to acquire skills, they
say to them : "You must only study religion, nothing
else!". And this prevents Muslims from catching up with
lost time. All Muslim countries are aware of the
scourge of such extremism. A big chunk of our energy,
that of the Muslims, is wasted on managing these
internal tensions/problems. In Malaysia, it's true, we
have been more successful than other Muslim countries.
This demands a strong will, a steadfastness, a capacity
to accept criticism, but also the support of the
majority. I personally enjoy a very strong support of
the Muslim majority who are moderates in my country.
And this is why I could succeed. But a lot of
governments in other Muslims countries, not getting
popular support, are not able to achieve the same
thing, and their countries remain very poor.
Q: So, isn't it unfair to criticise the West for the
failure of the Muslim world ?
Dr M: You have seen that I do not shy away from
criticising Muslims when I think that it is fair. But
you cannot let them carry all the burden of their
failure all by themselves ! The West had been very
unfair with the Muslim world and the Third World in
general, and this must be rectified.
Q: But beyond that, isn't there something in the Muslim
faith that might be incompatible with the capitalist
success, which is based on the individual desire to
enrich himself ?
Dr M: It's only when this tendency is pushed to the
limit that it will go against Islam. But if we follow
strictly the teachings of Islam, we will experience the
biggest success on the planet. The big Muslim empire of
the past was founded on Islamic teachings. Today,
certain extremists distort these teachings to serve
their personal and political ambition. The Quran
teaches us to live in peace with those from other
religions, calls upon us not to seek quarrel with them
if they do not seek quarrel with us. This is what we're
doing in Malaysia where all sorts of religious
communities live together harmoniously. An Islamic
country doesn't have to be like Afghanistan ! An
Islamic country works on achieving development and
peace, it wants to maintain good relations between the
communities. It is a country where a Muslim is free to
fulfil all his religious obligations. It is the case
here and, furthermore, it is also the case for the non-
Muslims. Extremism is condemned by Islam.
Q: The competition posed by China worries all the
countries in this region. How could you deal with it if
you maintain laws favouring the Malays (Bumiputeras) to
the detriment of the other communities (reserved public
jobs, discount on properties) which erodes the
competitiveness of the country?
Dr M: It is necessary to maintain a balance in the
levels of economic development between the different
ethnic groups in Malaysia to ensure its stability.
Giving up a part of our potential growth so as to
maintain a peaceful domestic environment contitutes a
necessary judgement. We went through, 30 years ago,
racial clashes and we do not want to go through it
again. However, despite this requirement, we
experienced a period of annual growth of 8 per cent for
10 years ! The current slowing down is the result of a
global sluggishness (of the economy). And our
unemployment rate, less than 4 per cent, is lesser than
yours.
Q: You have been advocating for an Asian currency to
counterbalance the weight of the dollar. Why not choose
the Euro ?
Dr M: We would have liked to choose the Euro ! But
European companies often refuse to deal with anything
else than the dollar ! How do you expect us to have
more faith in your currency than you yourself ?
Sumber : Pejabat Perdana Menteri
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